deadskie13 contemplates the varying dynamics and theatricality of this relationship
All the World a Stage, But There's Only Two Players On
It
First off, I think it's safe to infer that the Joker isn't quite right. He, erm, has problems with reality, to say the least. He's severely id-driven and completely amoral. He's self-centered, with grand illusions of greatness. Pretty much, he's the center of the entire universe. And so what I mean is, the Joker is nuts.
Given as such, he has a skewed way of seeing things. And so if you want to go with the theatre deal he's been known to go on and on about, he sees himself as this actor on a stage that all the world watches--only difference is, he's quite fond of audience participation. And so you have someone like Batman sitting front row, center. And Bats is so darn close, that he fills up the Joker's entire line of vision. He's just there, I mean. Waiting for his cue to jump on stage and have at it in a fighting-fight kind of way.
Behind Batman, you have people like Robin and Nightwing and Gordon. People the Joker otherwise wouldn't give two shits about, save the fact that they're a means of getting to ole Bats. And so I'd say the Joker views them as being cameo players--characters who set up the plot for the two main characters to follow. And so if by chance Batman doesn't want to play along, Joker just goes after them, and it snaps Batman back into the game. And I honestly do think the Joker believes everything is a game.
Moving along, behind the Batman's cohorts, you have the other inmates at Arkham. People like Scarecrow and Two-Face and Poison Ivy. Two-bit players who the Joker would think of as his relief. As in when Batman pulls him off stage, there has to be an intermission of sorts, and so that's what those clowns are for. The Joker doesn't respect them personally, so much that he respects the roles in which they play. They entertain him, I mean. And so I believe he thinks of them as filling in for him while he's behind the stage, taking a break and resting up.
Next, you have people who work for the Joker--his henchman and goons and thugs and the like. They become the bouncers and ushers, and nothing more. People who serve a purpose, and are allowed to live just so long as they do the job in which they are hired for.
After that, there's everyone else, who is simply everyone else. Throw-away characters who you can do with as you please. Sometimes they're nice, and play along, and will give a good scream or two, or chuckle.
And then, you have Harley, who isn't in the audience at all.
She's on the stage, I mean. And I think that's very important to note: she is the only willing participant in the Joker's world. The only person who hops up and down and yells "Pick me! Pick me! Pick me!" And as if that weren't enough, he does. Pick her, I mean. And not to kill.
The reason for this, I believe, is both very simple and very complicated--and so I suppose in that way, it's very much like any relationship. That said, I believe it works for the best, if you use the old canvas gag. The Joker is an artist, I mean, and Harley is a real piece of work.
And so if you back to the beginning--back when Harley girl was a psychiatrist, well then you can see how she was pretty much just some scrap of canvas he found amusing in a half-assed kind of way. And so she was a distraction of sorts--something to play with and cut and break just a bit. Surface damage, to prime the picture you wish to present. And I think that's kind of how it went, really: an epiphany of sorts. Because at some point in time the Joker realised he wasn't working on something he was willing to scrap so easy--for once he was willing to work with the medium and see where it took him. And so just like that, Harl became a work-in-progress.
As a work-in-progress, she got worked over pretty hard. Sometimes you have to smear things around pretty rough, I mean--you have to mess things up in order to make them work. And Haley gave him lots to mess with. She had some mental problems of her own. She's not perfect, and I think that's important to note because it's something that allows her to be quite endearing. You don't think of her as being evil and doing bad things, I mean, but the truth of the matter is she hangs out with the Joker. She's not some innocent little girl-next-door. Or maybe she is--it's just that she's the kind that'll creep into your house in the middle of the night and bash your head in, because her Puddin' told her to. And that's just it: she does what she does because the Joker tells her to. And, such things make her happy, because they make him happy.
Harley, at her core, is not a bad person. But she does seem to be someone who needs direction. And I believe that's why she's with the Joker. He allows her to be who she is, without fear and without responsibility. Erm, and I don't think I'm doing a very good job at this.
What I mean is, the Joker is probably the single most liberated character ever. And that's because he has no rules but his own. He constantly reinvents himself, he cares for no one but himself, and he acts on impulse and without regret--he does whatever he wants whenever he wants. And it's a pure kind of freedom that no one else knows, on account that he's not burdened by any number of things most people are--he's not concerned with consequences or economics or morals of any kind. And it's these personality traits that make him so dangerous.
And Harley, being with him, gains a great amount of freedom on account that everyone in the world has to fear all the little things and the Joker--and Harley, she only has to fear him. Nothing and no one is going to touch her, I mean. The second anyone knows who she is and who she's with--well, it's like a free pass. Done and done. No questions asked, because no one wants to give the Joker a reason "to do something funny with them". And so for someone like Harley, who could have easily felt like a quiet little mouse trying to be something she wasn't--it must have been a tremendously intoxicating relief to learn that you don't have to worry about such things in such a mundane world ever again. No responsibility and nothing to fear--just the Joker. And that's all she ever has to worry about, really--the Joker, and what he wants and what he needs.
And so it's kind of like a diagram has been set up, in the sense that the Joker only ever concerns himself with Batman, and Harley only ever concerns herself with the Joker. Therefore, Harley kind of becomes a common denominator, of sorts--she's the middle ground. The Joker is chaos, Batman is order, and Harley is the line that cuts right through them. She isn't so far gone that she doesn't realize what she's doing, nor is she so far on the other side that she cares to rectify her behavior. And so in that sense, she becomes a kind of go-between character; she becomes a link to reality for the Joker in a way in which he can understand. Previously that was only Batman, and it was always a one-way conversation involving fists.
And so I'd state that the difference in relationships breaks down like this: if someone were to kill Batman, the Joker would kill himself--if someone were to kill Harley, Joker would hunt them down and make them long for death. Therein lies the difference: the Batman is an equal, but Harley is a responsibility. She is the only person he feels the need to protect from others.
Harley plays a vital role to the Joker, in the sense that she's someone who constantly cheers him on--she's the one person who appreciates all the effort he puts forth into doing what he does. In return, she's the one person who he actually pays attention to. Well, sometimes--but for the Joker, that's a catastrophic leap. That he'd be willing to listen to anyone other than Batman for five seconds. And so there's a kind of communication that goes on between them; there's a reciprocation of sorts. And there's also the deal where they both just get a kick out of each other, and what they come up with.
And now with the whole abusive bit. Yesss. Well, I would argue that they don't have an abusive relationship. They do, I mean, but they don't. And what I'm trying to say is, you have to look at the characters, and how they define such things. It's really quite subjective. And so I don't think the Joker would say he's abusive to Harley--and not because he's in denial, but because his views of what a relationship are, aren't the same as a "normal" person's. He's beyond the capability of defining terms such as "abuse" and what it does and doesn't mean. His mind just doesn't work that way.
Furthermore, I'd say the same goes for Harley, in the sense that she doesn't so much see it as abuse as attention. And she wants nothing more than to have and hold the Joker's attention. That's her twisted little perception of love--that as long as he does things to her that he doesn't do to anyone else, then that must mean that he loves her. And, I think she's right. He doesn't understand "love" in the traditional sense, and while I think Harley does, it's important to note that she just doesn't care.
Oh, she'd love for the Joker to confess all his emotions to her, sure--but then again she wouldn't, just because it'd be so unlike him. And she loves him so much, that she's willing to accept his definitions of such things. She's a bit like a puppy dog, in that aspect--she is going to love him no matter what he does. (Also, you have to remember she's a psychiatrist, and so even though she's a bit messed up, herself, I do think she honest and truly understands the Joker better than anyone. And a lot of it has to do with how she's willing to let him be who he is, without apology.)
In turn, I believe he loves and feels for her as much as he's capable of expressing such concepts, thoughts, and emotions--which is to say he has a fond affection, at best. But a fond affection to someone who kills most everyone else they come in contact with--well, that becomes a kind of miracle, in and of itself. And so while it's easy enough to see that he messes with Harley quite a bit, it's also worth noting that he'd miss her if she wasn't around to mess with.
There are moments in which Harley reminds him what it's like to be something more than a homicidal maniac--she'd have to, or else she'd be dead by now. And so of course he has feelings for her. And, he would hate himself for it, only since he's perfect, he couldn't hate himself--he could, however, hate Harley for it. And so done and done.
I think Harley is the only person he could ever be in such a relationship with, because if it were to blow up in his face, he would remember it. And since he doesn't like being vulnerable, I can see it being something he would never try again. And from Harley's standpoint I believe that the Joker would inadvertantly break her in such a way, that all others would pale in comparison.
I think since the Joker is how he is, saying he has a fond affection for her isn't a slap in the face to how much he cares for her. Figure it's like a normal person saying they'd love her always and forever. Therefore every act of kindness he does towards her, becomes amplified to where it means something significant. And Harley understands that--it's what causes her to squeee.
I think it's impossible for them to be detached, on account that he views Harley as an extension of who he is. And, being as egotistical as he is, it'd eat him up if she were to be away longer than he deemed necessary.
Moving on, you can also see how Harley isn't above having it out with The Joker, every now and then. And so poor victimized Harley doesn't really exist. There are lines, I mean. And when she feels as though the Joker has crossed a line, it's pretty much a free-for-all. What's funny, though, is how Mister J often responds--how he lets her give him a punch or two, every now-and-then, and does so without any real retaliation. I believe this has to do with how their relationship has evolved into one that is no longer an artist working on a quick sketch, so much as an artist working on their masterpiece. And so I think whenever Harley retaliates, it causes the Joker to smile and chuckle and dance all about, on account that it means that she is becoming more and more like him--she's becoming a true reflection of everything that he is: more violent, more confident, and much more perfect.
Figure the Joker's ego causes him to think of himself as perfect, and since Harley is his creation, he can't help but think of her as an extention of that perfection. She, erm, just needs to know her place, is all. And so a few hits here-and-there, is fine--but when enough is enough, she needs to back down into her role as apprentice, so to speak. Needs to step out of the limelight and back to a stage-hand. And for what it's worth, Harley does. She's someone who can hold her own against the Joker--and yet she always backs down. She understands that this is the way it has to be, if they're to have any relationship at all. And so while it isn't a healthy relationship by any means, it is when you look at it in terms of the mental state of the people involved.
Oh, it is an abusive relationship, if you're outside looking in. And I think one of the reasons Harley goes for it, is she's aware it's all part of the act. Figure if the Joker is on stage, then she has to play whatever part he needs her to play. And so if they're out in public, she's spastic Harley ready to defend Mister J--and if they're at "home", it's obsessive Harley fawning over her Puddin'. And the same can be said for the Joker--it's just he's a bit trickier to pen down, since he's running the show. And anyways, what I'm getting at is, they're true emotions, but there's a time and place for each one. Figure as much as the Joker would deny it, he really is quite a control freak.
And so I think winking is implied, between them. I feel as though no matter what occurs, Harley and the Joker are somehow in on the act together, and that they have all these little inside-jokes that cause them to wink at one another. He needs someone who's devoted, and she needs someone who will (for lack of better terms) take care of her. He knows what he's doing, and she actually gets it. They're up on this stage together, and they're playing these roles. She says a funny line or tosses out a gag, and he either goes with it or he doesn't--he says a funny line or tosses out a gag, and she sure as hell better go with it!
And so there they are, those two crazy kids, giving each other what they need.
First off, I think it's safe to infer that the Joker isn't quite right. He, erm, has problems with reality, to say the least. He's severely id-driven and completely amoral. He's self-centered, with grand illusions of greatness. Pretty much, he's the center of the entire universe. And so what I mean is, the Joker is nuts.
Given as such, he has a skewed way of seeing things. And so if you want to go with the theatre deal he's been known to go on and on about, he sees himself as this actor on a stage that all the world watches--only difference is, he's quite fond of audience participation. And so you have someone like Batman sitting front row, center. And Bats is so darn close, that he fills up the Joker's entire line of vision. He's just there, I mean. Waiting for his cue to jump on stage and have at it in a fighting-fight kind of way.
Behind Batman, you have people like Robin and Nightwing and Gordon. People the Joker otherwise wouldn't give two shits about, save the fact that they're a means of getting to ole Bats. And so I'd say the Joker views them as being cameo players--characters who set up the plot for the two main characters to follow. And so if by chance Batman doesn't want to play along, Joker just goes after them, and it snaps Batman back into the game. And I honestly do think the Joker believes everything is a game.
Moving along, behind the Batman's cohorts, you have the other inmates at Arkham. People like Scarecrow and Two-Face and Poison Ivy. Two-bit players who the Joker would think of as his relief. As in when Batman pulls him off stage, there has to be an intermission of sorts, and so that's what those clowns are for. The Joker doesn't respect them personally, so much that he respects the roles in which they play. They entertain him, I mean. And so I believe he thinks of them as filling in for him while he's behind the stage, taking a break and resting up.
Next, you have people who work for the Joker--his henchman and goons and thugs and the like. They become the bouncers and ushers, and nothing more. People who serve a purpose, and are allowed to live just so long as they do the job in which they are hired for.
After that, there's everyone else, who is simply everyone else. Throw-away characters who you can do with as you please. Sometimes they're nice, and play along, and will give a good scream or two, or chuckle.
And then, you have Harley, who isn't in the audience at all.
She's on the stage, I mean. And I think that's very important to note: she is the only willing participant in the Joker's world. The only person who hops up and down and yells "Pick me! Pick me! Pick me!" And as if that weren't enough, he does. Pick her, I mean. And not to kill.
The reason for this, I believe, is both very simple and very complicated--and so I suppose in that way, it's very much like any relationship. That said, I believe it works for the best, if you use the old canvas gag. The Joker is an artist, I mean, and Harley is a real piece of work.
And so if you back to the beginning--back when Harley girl was a psychiatrist, well then you can see how she was pretty much just some scrap of canvas he found amusing in a half-assed kind of way. And so she was a distraction of sorts--something to play with and cut and break just a bit. Surface damage, to prime the picture you wish to present. And I think that's kind of how it went, really: an epiphany of sorts. Because at some point in time the Joker realised he wasn't working on something he was willing to scrap so easy--for once he was willing to work with the medium and see where it took him. And so just like that, Harl became a work-in-progress.
As a work-in-progress, she got worked over pretty hard. Sometimes you have to smear things around pretty rough, I mean--you have to mess things up in order to make them work. And Haley gave him lots to mess with. She had some mental problems of her own. She's not perfect, and I think that's important to note because it's something that allows her to be quite endearing. You don't think of her as being evil and doing bad things, I mean, but the truth of the matter is she hangs out with the Joker. She's not some innocent little girl-next-door. Or maybe she is--it's just that she's the kind that'll creep into your house in the middle of the night and bash your head in, because her Puddin' told her to. And that's just it: she does what she does because the Joker tells her to. And, such things make her happy, because they make him happy.
Harley, at her core, is not a bad person. But she does seem to be someone who needs direction. And I believe that's why she's with the Joker. He allows her to be who she is, without fear and without responsibility. Erm, and I don't think I'm doing a very good job at this.
What I mean is, the Joker is probably the single most liberated character ever. And that's because he has no rules but his own. He constantly reinvents himself, he cares for no one but himself, and he acts on impulse and without regret--he does whatever he wants whenever he wants. And it's a pure kind of freedom that no one else knows, on account that he's not burdened by any number of things most people are--he's not concerned with consequences or economics or morals of any kind. And it's these personality traits that make him so dangerous.
And Harley, being with him, gains a great amount of freedom on account that everyone in the world has to fear all the little things and the Joker--and Harley, she only has to fear him. Nothing and no one is going to touch her, I mean. The second anyone knows who she is and who she's with--well, it's like a free pass. Done and done. No questions asked, because no one wants to give the Joker a reason "to do something funny with them". And so for someone like Harley, who could have easily felt like a quiet little mouse trying to be something she wasn't--it must have been a tremendously intoxicating relief to learn that you don't have to worry about such things in such a mundane world ever again. No responsibility and nothing to fear--just the Joker. And that's all she ever has to worry about, really--the Joker, and what he wants and what he needs.
And so it's kind of like a diagram has been set up, in the sense that the Joker only ever concerns himself with Batman, and Harley only ever concerns herself with the Joker. Therefore, Harley kind of becomes a common denominator, of sorts--she's the middle ground. The Joker is chaos, Batman is order, and Harley is the line that cuts right through them. She isn't so far gone that she doesn't realize what she's doing, nor is she so far on the other side that she cares to rectify her behavior. And so in that sense, she becomes a kind of go-between character; she becomes a link to reality for the Joker in a way in which he can understand. Previously that was only Batman, and it was always a one-way conversation involving fists.
And so I'd state that the difference in relationships breaks down like this: if someone were to kill Batman, the Joker would kill himself--if someone were to kill Harley, Joker would hunt them down and make them long for death. Therein lies the difference: the Batman is an equal, but Harley is a responsibility. She is the only person he feels the need to protect from others.
Harley plays a vital role to the Joker, in the sense that she's someone who constantly cheers him on--she's the one person who appreciates all the effort he puts forth into doing what he does. In return, she's the one person who he actually pays attention to. Well, sometimes--but for the Joker, that's a catastrophic leap. That he'd be willing to listen to anyone other than Batman for five seconds. And so there's a kind of communication that goes on between them; there's a reciprocation of sorts. And there's also the deal where they both just get a kick out of each other, and what they come up with.
And now with the whole abusive bit. Yesss. Well, I would argue that they don't have an abusive relationship. They do, I mean, but they don't. And what I'm trying to say is, you have to look at the characters, and how they define such things. It's really quite subjective. And so I don't think the Joker would say he's abusive to Harley--and not because he's in denial, but because his views of what a relationship are, aren't the same as a "normal" person's. He's beyond the capability of defining terms such as "abuse" and what it does and doesn't mean. His mind just doesn't work that way.
Furthermore, I'd say the same goes for Harley, in the sense that she doesn't so much see it as abuse as attention. And she wants nothing more than to have and hold the Joker's attention. That's her twisted little perception of love--that as long as he does things to her that he doesn't do to anyone else, then that must mean that he loves her. And, I think she's right. He doesn't understand "love" in the traditional sense, and while I think Harley does, it's important to note that she just doesn't care.
Oh, she'd love for the Joker to confess all his emotions to her, sure--but then again she wouldn't, just because it'd be so unlike him. And she loves him so much, that she's willing to accept his definitions of such things. She's a bit like a puppy dog, in that aspect--she is going to love him no matter what he does. (Also, you have to remember she's a psychiatrist, and so even though she's a bit messed up, herself, I do think she honest and truly understands the Joker better than anyone. And a lot of it has to do with how she's willing to let him be who he is, without apology.)
In turn, I believe he loves and feels for her as much as he's capable of expressing such concepts, thoughts, and emotions--which is to say he has a fond affection, at best. But a fond affection to someone who kills most everyone else they come in contact with--well, that becomes a kind of miracle, in and of itself. And so while it's easy enough to see that he messes with Harley quite a bit, it's also worth noting that he'd miss her if she wasn't around to mess with.
There are moments in which Harley reminds him what it's like to be something more than a homicidal maniac--she'd have to, or else she'd be dead by now. And so of course he has feelings for her. And, he would hate himself for it, only since he's perfect, he couldn't hate himself--he could, however, hate Harley for it. And so done and done.
I think Harley is the only person he could ever be in such a relationship with, because if it were to blow up in his face, he would remember it. And since he doesn't like being vulnerable, I can see it being something he would never try again. And from Harley's standpoint I believe that the Joker would inadvertantly break her in such a way, that all others would pale in comparison.
I think since the Joker is how he is, saying he has a fond affection for her isn't a slap in the face to how much he cares for her. Figure it's like a normal person saying they'd love her always and forever. Therefore every act of kindness he does towards her, becomes amplified to where it means something significant. And Harley understands that--it's what causes her to squeee.
I think it's impossible for them to be detached, on account that he views Harley as an extension of who he is. And, being as egotistical as he is, it'd eat him up if she were to be away longer than he deemed necessary.
Moving on, you can also see how Harley isn't above having it out with The Joker, every now and then. And so poor victimized Harley doesn't really exist. There are lines, I mean. And when she feels as though the Joker has crossed a line, it's pretty much a free-for-all. What's funny, though, is how Mister J often responds--how he lets her give him a punch or two, every now-and-then, and does so without any real retaliation. I believe this has to do with how their relationship has evolved into one that is no longer an artist working on a quick sketch, so much as an artist working on their masterpiece. And so I think whenever Harley retaliates, it causes the Joker to smile and chuckle and dance all about, on account that it means that she is becoming more and more like him--she's becoming a true reflection of everything that he is: more violent, more confident, and much more perfect.
Figure the Joker's ego causes him to think of himself as perfect, and since Harley is his creation, he can't help but think of her as an extention of that perfection. She, erm, just needs to know her place, is all. And so a few hits here-and-there, is fine--but when enough is enough, she needs to back down into her role as apprentice, so to speak. Needs to step out of the limelight and back to a stage-hand. And for what it's worth, Harley does. She's someone who can hold her own against the Joker--and yet she always backs down. She understands that this is the way it has to be, if they're to have any relationship at all. And so while it isn't a healthy relationship by any means, it is when you look at it in terms of the mental state of the people involved.
Oh, it is an abusive relationship, if you're outside looking in. And I think one of the reasons Harley goes for it, is she's aware it's all part of the act. Figure if the Joker is on stage, then she has to play whatever part he needs her to play. And so if they're out in public, she's spastic Harley ready to defend Mister J--and if they're at "home", it's obsessive Harley fawning over her Puddin'. And the same can be said for the Joker--it's just he's a bit trickier to pen down, since he's running the show. And anyways, what I'm getting at is, they're true emotions, but there's a time and place for each one. Figure as much as the Joker would deny it, he really is quite a control freak.
And so I think winking is implied, between them. I feel as though no matter what occurs, Harley and the Joker are somehow in on the act together, and that they have all these little inside-jokes that cause them to wink at one another. He needs someone who's devoted, and she needs someone who will (for lack of better terms) take care of her. He knows what he's doing, and she actually gets it. They're up on this stage together, and they're playing these roles. She says a funny line or tosses out a gag, and he either goes with it or he doesn't--he says a funny line or tosses out a gag, and she sure as hell better go with it!
And so there they are, those two crazy kids, giving each other what they need.